Dirt Biking's Future?

[Stu]

Comments?

It seems there are massive changes underway.

1) Big Singles: KTM drops out of the SA Dakar. The organization goes to a 450 limit. KTM hints at more support in Africa. No word on a 690 Adventure. Publicity chief at KTM says buyers prefer the 990 A & 950 SE. Does that mean there are no plans for a smaller, lighter Adventure?

2) 450/530 singles: KTM apparently is dropping out of MX/SX as well. (Rumors abound regarding the other manufacturer support as well.) KTM expects to promote privateer contingency programs. Will this affect races out west? Will the 530 become the de facto KTM DS bike? If so, will the fluctuation of the dollar against other currencies keep the price at least 40% higher than the Asian competition? (Also note that KTM is NOT enthusiastic about a 450 long-distance racer for these rally events so development of an engine for these events may not occur.)

3) 2 strokes: Only KTM & a few other European manufacturers are offering them. With KTM out of MX will there be continued support for 2Ts?

4) The future: KTM is making their electric MX bike with a 40 minute race time available in 2010. Green and extremely quiet. Will this revitalize MX with even urban settings for electric MX (E-MX)? Wouldn't the torque of an electric bike make a great woods bike, if it had a 10% power warning on it so you could get back to your truck and your spare battery?

What will happen to the DS market and the trail riders when China gets in the act in a serious way? They already are producing 400/450 c.c. dirt bikes for their domestic market.

Stu

[MacWildcat]

Don't know that I would buy Chinese bike......yet. They have alot of kinks to work... just like some European bike builders when they first started producing bikes. Competition is a good thing. Maybe the Jap manufacturers will pull their heads out already and release the long overdue 450cc dualsports. They have had the engines and chassis for a while now, just keep whining about emissions. If the Chinese can get a bike through emissions, whats wrong with Suzuki, Yamaha, Kawasaki, and Honda.

I found some info about the Chinese dirtbike. Identical to a Honda CRF - parts are interchangeable.

[safiri]

1) a) Big Singles: KTM drops out of the SA Dakar. The organization goes to a 450 limit.
b) KTM hints at more support in Africa.
c) No word on a 690 Adventure. Publicity chief at KTM says buyers prefer the 990 A & 950 SE. Does that mean there are no plans for a smaller, lighter Adventure?

2) 450/530 singles: KTM apparently is dropping out of MX/SX as well. (Rumors abound regarding the other manufacturer support as well.) KTM expects to promote privateer contingency programs. Will this affect races out west? Will the 530 become the de facto KTM DS bike? If so, will the fluctuation of the dollar against other currencies keep the price at least 40% higher than the Asian competition? (Also note that KTM is NOT enthusiastic about a 450 long-distance racer for these rally events so development of an engine for these events may not occur.)

3) 2 strokes: Only KTM & a few other European manufacturers are offering them. With KTM out of MX will there be continued support for 2Ts?

4) The future: KTM is making their electric MX bike with a 40 minute race time available in 2010. Green and extremely quiet. Will this revitalize MX with even urban settings for electric MX (E-MX)? Wouldn't the torque of an electric bike make a great woods bike, if it had a 10% power warning on it so you could get back to your truck and your spare battery?

What will happen to the DS market and the trail riders when China gets in the act in a serious way? They already are producing 400/450 c.c. dirt bikes for their domestic market.

Stu

1a. If the SA-Dakar made the change this late for the next running, then I understand KTM's position. Hard to develop a suitable/winnable/reliable bike in that time frame. Remember that the LC4 that they originally ran was highly modified. KTM, like any other manufacturer, doesn't want to enter a bike as a factory team, only to have it break down. For a privateer, not such a blemish to KTM, but big blemish for a factory team.

1b. Support for what in Africa?

1c. How many Adventures do they sell? Hard to justify for a few bikes.

2. How many pro MX/SX fans buy bikes? I don't know the answer, but wonder if it is a pretty small %.

3. No. Emissions, both of gas/smoke and noise. CA outlawed all new 2T anything (outboards, trimmers, lawnmowers, etc) long ago. My old Mercury 2T outboard polluted the lake more in 5 minutes than my 4T Merc inboard does in 5 hours. 2T Diesel Deffenbaugh trash trucks need to be put in the landfill, as they belch a black smoke trail worthy of hiding a WW2 fleet movement.

4. I am waiting for EFI (and easily adjustable street legal emissions) and electric to take over what is produced. A mass-produced EFI system can't cost any more than a Keihin carb. Not much electric current is required, and some EFI bikes don't have a battery. The ignitions have been electronic for quite a while.

5. As to the Chinese, I view them as being in the position Japan was decades ago: good at copying what others are doing. Remember when "Made in Japan" meant it was junk? I barely do, and mostly from listening to people my parents age. I was born in 1966. My first car was a 82 Toyota. Well built. China will get to where Japan is now, but it will take a while.

6. My question: Why aren't more dirt motorcycles produced as street legal? I guess I am in the minority overall, but for what I ride, that license plate is very handy / required. The requirements to be FMVSSA (Fed Motor Vehicle Safety Standards Act) compliant are straight forward and don't add much to a motorcycle (turn signals, dual beam headlight, tail/brake light, one mirror). Braking is the only other requirement, and it is already there. Considering how small a current LED lights draw (turn, tail, brake), not much of a charging system (40W? above the ignition) would be needed. EPA emissions are another hurdle, but not that much with EFI or carb. Neither of these hurdles (FMVSSA, EPA) can add that much to the cost of a bike. If I don't want the lights, let me take them off. Or make two models, with one stripped, like KTM does/did with the 450 and 530.

[Savage]

I'd ride a brushless and lipo bike. But couldn't afford one. Don't know that I would in the dirt because the power to weight is ridiculous. I run R/C's and a BL/lipo setup will smoke a nitro and has a long runtime.

[Stu]

Your question about the production of more dirt bikes that are street legal is apparently that, as a Harley salesman told me, "People want cushy couches." Not semi-race bikes. With the economy and people so uncertain about their next paycheck the sales of simple, durable and economical "dirt bikes" that are street legal, such as the Honda 230, might increase. I am told that Kawasaki dealers have a lot of inventory but cannot get their hands on enough KLR 650s.

Stu

[Savage]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI7mURSJ ... re=related


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JI7mURSJ ... re=related[/youtube]

[Motoracer13]

HEY!!! Dont forget Yamaha, they are still making two-strokes. As far as EFI that was mentioned earlier for 2010 the Only jap MX bike that wont be EFI is the Yamaha YZ250F. Its been around on quads a few years now. It was used on Cannondale's close but failed dirtbikes and quads around 2001( or 2002?). My 06 Suzuki LTR quad has EFI and its awesome, I would be riding a 2009 RMZ450( EFI in 2007) right now if railroad hadnt slowed so much. I also remember something about mx sports actually being one of the highest ratio of fans doing watch they are watching. It makes sense because its a cheap sport to buy into compared to other motorsports. The China products are where the jap stuff was 20ish years ago, they're here but not quite with the quality yet. I think they will be real close in about 6 years, and good competion in about 10. The KLRs? Yep they sell pretty well but I have a theory on that! It will be another thread later!

[tp_cracker]

The KLRs? Yep they sell pretty well but I have a theory on that! It will be another thread later!

Don't be bashing the KLR's dude