Farming is hard

[troy]

Quiet morning sipping my coffee, and, as one does, reading KSU's Kansas Land Values Book 2020.

The 2019 Net Farm Income average was $110,380 per operator but of that 72% was made up of government payments.

Farming is hard.

[troy]

So what is the REAL cost of food? I have always been astounded that I can go into a Costco and buy a rotisserie cooked chicken for $5.

• Hatch the chicken
• Raise & feed the chicken
• Get chicken to market
• Prepare the chicken
• Cook the chicken
• Package for retail sale

-----------------------------------------
TOTAL: $5.00

What kind of math is this?!

When you buy that loaf of bread for $1.39, that's not your real cost. A lot of tax money is subsidizing your food costs.

Have a great day!

[gagnaou]

Troy,

Just to bring a little perspective to the numbers, 2019 numbers had a lot of COVID assistance government help that most businesses (any business with employees or that could show a loss of income from pre pandemic) were eligible for, that is why the share of the net income coming from the government was larger than usual.

Regardless, our food in the US is probably be cheaper than what it ought to be but so is the case in most countries. Most dramatic regime changes happened and are happening all over the world when your population goes hungry so I guess in the back of our mind our representatives know this and they want to make sure that we stay food independent.

At the end of the day, most farmers I know wish they did not have to deal with this, but they also recognize that if they do not take those $s but their neighbors are, they'll be the ones going out of business.

Farming is still hard....

[troy]

Most dramatic regime changes happened and are happening all over the world when your population goes hungry...

I hadn't thought that far down the line. Makes sense. I've told people my "big fear" is not terrorists or zombies or natural disasters in themselves---it is 1) lack of drinking water, and 2) lack of food. If we have a major power grid failure, the loss of electricity in itself is a big problem, but the real problem will be the inability to supply clean water to millions of people---millions of people who don't have a clue how to find water or start a fire, people who believe they have a basic right to have someone else meet their needs.

I'll just say it: my "big fear" is the mass hysteria of stupid people. Boy did this thread take a nasty turn. Have a great day!

[xr-nut]

I read what you were laying down troy and you are spot on. Luc is correct about the PPP plan and all of the $ from that, that went to farms. that was for 2020 though, not '19?

I partnered with another dealer and quickly became friends. He also farms. My eyes have been opened by the games being played and the tax money FLOWING into farms. One big game, and I doubt our friend and riding buddy should comment on this for obvious reasons, is the split farm names game. For example, I own 3 pieces of ground, maybe one in another county. Each has its own name, ie- joes farm llc, jh farms llc and hackney farms llc. Each of those "independent" farms can apply for and receive all the federal and state aid. I forecast 1000 bushel of f-nuggets on the joes farm llc account. But if it doesnt get there, the usda office will give me money to make up for it. So as Im hauling in the f-nuggets and approaching my "limit" of 1000 bushels, I simply put this load on another farms ledger......jh farms llc. And so on and so on. there are plenty of other schemes going on but........I'm tired of typing and this crap just makes me angry.

Here is another one I like when I see them on the highway. With the exception of wheat, if a person does not eat processed foods, they cannot be counted in that #. I suppose one could extrapolate field corn being used to feed out the fresh beef I buy from my neighbor, but that would be about all of that I consume. Soy beans? Don't think so. Wheat in bread. ALL of our "fresh" fruits and veggies come from out of state. Unless you buy at the local farmers market during the gardening months. It is all just a big marketing plan so you're fat and happy on your high fructose corn syrup diet paying your taxes.

[xr-nut]

Some info on corn and beans and where it all goes!

Taken from https://thefarmersdaughterusa.com/field ... se-it-for/

38% of the corn supply in the United States (5.5 billion bushels) is used as feed for livestock such as beef, pork or poultry.
29% is used for ethanol production. Besides the ethanol this produces, this corn also will result in approximately 1 billion bushels of distillers grains to be used as livestock feed.
8% is exported to other countries. The top five countries to which the United States exports corn are Japan, Mexico, South Korea, Taiwan and Egypt.
12% of the corn (1.3 billion bushels) goes to other food, seed and industrial uses. Field corn is a source of corn cereal, corn starch, corn oil and corn syrup.
5% of the total corn supply (currently 1.8 billion bushels) is carried over as a surplus for the next year. The rest of the corn (about 8%) is corn displaced by distillers grains.

and for the beans: https://www.canr.msu.edu/news/where_do_ ... oybeans_go

Ninety eight percent of soybean meal is used for animal feed (poultry, hogs and cattle mostly) and only one percent is used to produce food for people.
88 percent of soybean oil is used for human consumption (mostly cooking oil), 12 percent is used as an alternative to petroleum oil

[gagnaou]

I read what you were laying down troy and you are spot on. Luc is correct about the PPP plan and all of the $ from that, that went to farms. that was for 2020 though, not '19?

Good point I had my dates messed up, those extra government payment from previous years were supposedly there to make up for the trade war with China where China retaliated by not purchasing farm goods from the US and therefore farmers were experiencing low commodity prices

I partnered with another dealer and quickly became friends. He also farms. My eyes have been opened by the games being played and the tax money FLOWING into farms. One big game, and I doubt our friend and riding buddy should comment on this for obvious reasons, is the split farm names game. For example, I own 3 pieces of ground, maybe one in another county. Each has its own name, ie- joes farm llc, jh farms llc and hackney farms llc. Each of those "independent" farms can apply for and receive all the federal and state aid. I forecast 1000 bushel of f-nuggets on the joes farm llc account. But if it doesnt get there, the usda office will give me money to make up for it. So as Im hauling in the f-nuggets and approaching my "limit" of 1000 bushels, I simply put this load on another farms ledger......jh farms llc. And so on and so on. there are plenty of other schemes going on but........I'm tired of typing and this crap just makes me angry.

Regarding this, most of my experience with multiple entities is that they typically have different ownership structure for instance Joe senior farm LLC (dad's farm ground) and then maybe Joe's kids LLC (Joe's kids farm) and potentially another one with all of them together. This typically happens depending on when and how kids came back to the farm etc. As far as the other part of that paragraph, I think you are referencing to crop insurance and if that scenario you are describing happened, that is fraud and they should be turned in.

[DirtFarmer]

Interesting

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fi ... nty,Kansas

[xr-nut]

Interesting

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fi ... nty,Kansas

childs play. look at brown county where my business is at.

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fip ... nty,Kansas

and the neighboring county where I live

https://farm.ewg.org/top_recips.php?fip ... nty,Kansas


edited to add: Having been a brownbusdriver in these two counties for 15 years, I know everyone on the list. especially in brown. I can tell you without reservation that everyone of the top twenty on that list have the nicest farms, the newest pickups, the newest equipment, etc compared to their neighbors and the rest of the counties farms. is that coincidence?

[safiri]

I'm on the USDA list. Albeit way down on the list.

Almost all of us are guilty of taking government handouts: tax breaks, tax refunds, lower tax rates for specific business types, farm subsidies, etc.

Probably time to move this thread to "The Basement".

[xr-nut]

I'm on the USDA list. Albeit way down on the list.

Almost all of us are guilty of taking government handouts: tax breaks, tax refunds, lower tax rates for specific business types, farm subsidies, etc.

Probably time to move this thread to "The Basement".

Agreed on taking handouts. Last year was a good example. I did not want to take the handout(PPP) but my banker said it would guarantee we could make our payments and keep my employees fed. So I did. Turned out we had a good year anyhow and I wish I hadn't taken it. Moral high horse and all. I did make a few calls about returning it but it turns out the steps to do so make it nearly impossible. The only other time have taken a handout was one semester in college I took a pell grant. the rest of my school was gi bill.

and is a tax refund or tax break really a handout? the tax laws are written the way they are for a reason, by someone who at least thinks they are smarter than the rest of us and its surely not a handout to play the game by their rules?

as far as moving the thread to the basement......we have a basement? besides, a little good discussion never hurt anyone, has it?

[safiri]

and is a tax refund or tax break really a handout? the tax laws are written the way they are for a reason, by someone who at least thinks they are smarter than the rest of us and its surely not a handout to play the game by their rules?

To me they are the same as they have the same effect: more money to ME and less to the government. Not to mention both are created by the same "someone" to have that same effect. Neither is more wrong than the other. Or more right.

(To be clear, a refund of ~overpayment~ at the end of the year is not what I meant by "refund".)

The government requires a certain amount of money to operate and provide the services we expect. If one segment pays less, another must pay more. Zero-sum. Your local fire protection district needs a certain amount of money to provide the protection you expect. If you are exempted from providing some or all of that support, other members of the district have to make up the difference. The same is true of local property tax incentives. Those incentives are handed out by the cities and counties, but have an effect on every entity that relies on a mill levy to provide services (sewer, water, drainage, schools, police, fire, etc.).

A separate debate is that concerning what services we want the government to provide and thus how much money should go into that pot.

[safiri]

Agreed on taking handouts. Last year was a good example. I did not want to take the handout(PPP) but my banker said it would guarantee we could make our payments and keep my employees fed. So I did. Turned out we had a good year anyhow and I wish I hadn't taken it. Moral high horse and all. I did make a few calls about returning it but it turns out the steps to do so make it nearly impossible. The only other time have taken a handout was one semester in college I took a pell grant. the rest of my school was gi bill.

as far as moving the thread to the basement......we have a basement? besides, a little good discussion never hurt anyone, has it?

Agree on both.

Many years ago you and I had a discussion about Brownback's "adrenaline to the heart" tax cuts. IIRC, we were pretty close on desired effect.

[xr-nut]

[/quote]
Many years ago you and I had a discussion about Brownback's "adrenaline to the heart" tax cuts. IIRC, we were pretty close on desired effect.
[/quote]

I miss those chats man, been too long. and wait a minute............was I just getting a civics lesson from a shop teacher........................


I think we're on the same page, handout vs what is rightly ours. A refund is just that, no way around it. I over paid and I should get it back. A tax break(or playing the tax game by their rules) is not a handout, rather keeping what is already mine. On the other hand, a pell grant is a hand out. Free money given to a particular class, much like the food stamp/wic programs etc.

[xr-nut]

another good read on subsidies:

https://www.thebalance.com/farm-subsidies-4173885

This part is telling:

" Between 1995 and 2019, the top 10% of recipients received 78% of the $223.5 billion doled out, according to EWG.9

The top 1% received 26% of the payments. That averages out to $1.7 million per company.

Fifty people on the Forbes 400 list of the wealthiest Americans received farm subsidies.10 On the other hand, 62% of U.S. farms did not receive any subsidies. "

Like any other law, tax or otherwise, these subsidies were put there to make the rich richer and keep everyone else in their place. My .02