Pinch flats / tire pressure - ideas..

[Jamee]

What do you guys think about greasing your tubes? Just some regular wheel bearing or marine grease?

I mention this because I was talking with an old friend from HS over the holidays and we where talking about riding. I grew up in Maine, where he is still located and he was drilling me with questions about riding out here in the Midwest. Back home everything is crushed sea shell with huge granite boulders (lots of the crushed sea shell, minimal granite).

He asked me how many pinch flats I've had so far, told him zero, but I hear of it a lot and many seem to run higher tire pressures then am use to (12-13 psi f & r). He said when his family heads down to Mexico each year for their big ride, they grease the hell out of the tubes, before they install them... Never have any pinch flats during their 2week ride..

We discussed talc powder and such, but in his opinion it doesn't have the same effect. So, just curious about what some might think of it.. Did some Google searching and the only negative I could easily find discussed the grease breaking down the rubber tube over time, well and the mess.

Anyone ever tried this?

[troy]

The theory makes sense to me. I just don't want to deal with that mess when I have to change a tube on the trail. The side benefit would be you would no doubt end up with grease everywhere making it easier to get the tire bead back over the rim.

[DanielKeimTS]

I started greasing/lubing my tubes ever since I saw it on an areimann video a year or more ago. I've never had a pinch flat and run really low psi, I don't know if it helps but I'll probably keep doing it.

[ajayhawkfan]

The theory makes sense to me. I just don't want to deal with that mess when I have to change a tube on the trail. The side benefit would be you would no doubt end up with grease everywhere making it easier to get the tire bead back over the rim.

A couple questions:

1. Why would it help? The way I understand a pinch flat is caused because the pinch is very quick. I don't think a greased tube would allow the tube to move fast enough to get out of the way.

2. If you have grease everywhere wouldn't you be concerned about the tire moving the wheel?

[troy]

In reply to ajayhawkfan's questions. I think the grease could/would be effective in reducing pinch flats. As for the tiny timeframe...ask how an air bag can possibly trigger and inflate in time to protect you in a crash! Amazing. I think about how many times the valves in my 4-stroke motor open and shut in just 1 second. A lot can happen in a millisecond. (Where I used to work, we could process 10 sequential stock trading orders in 1 millisecond.)

I have to agree with ajayhawk's concern about getting grease on the tire bead. You'd want to be careful not to leave grease there. If you do get your tire bead greasy, you'll be worried about spinning the rim inside the tire--which rips your valve stem off. (Been there, done that.) Of course, dirt bikes almost always have a rim-lock to prevent this.

I actually had never heard of greasing the tube, so thanks for bringing it up, Jamee.

[Jamee]

I actually had never heard of greasing the tube, so thanks for bringing it up, Jamee.

Wasn't my idea, just something an old friend brought up and this seemed like a good place to do a small data dump.

I did mention the part about the wheel spinning, rim lock mentioned above. He also said its not really that messy. Just do a good job putting that tube inside the actual tire. Take a little care and time. Sure has me thinking that's for sure. I've been wanting to replace the OEM tubes with a heavier tube and better rim strip, so I think I'll give it a try when I replace those.

[Jamee]

I started greasing/lubing my tubes ever since I saw it on an areimann video a year or more ago. I've never had a pinch flat and run really low psi, I don't know if it helps but I'll probably keep doing it.

Awesome, I was wondering if anyone was doing this.. Glad to hear you've had good results.

[ajayhawkfan]

I think the theory is the grease would allow the tube to slide away from the tire however I don't think it would work for a couple of reasons:
1. Air pressure is going to hold the tube to the inside of the tire. Hitting something is going to put more pressure between the tube and tire not allowing the tube to slide away from the pinch.

2. A thin layer of grease between two rubber compounds would do the opposite and cause them to stick together instead of separating. A suction would form between the two not allowing the two to separate in case of a pinch.

Why don't you guys get Mythbusters looking into it. My guess it would be busted.

[Jamee]

Check out from 4:30 on in this video..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n6roPN4QoAs

Adam Riemann does this video - Daniel -is this the video you where talking about?

[Savage]

Never heard of this before. Just watched the video. What do you expect, they're from Australia, they do everything bassackwards down there. Watch the video at 6 min. "You just slut it in".

I've had 1 pinch flat in my life and that was on the 1st tire/tube I ever installed. I didn't know anything so I used the same soapy water on the tube inside the tire because I had the same thought. Next day I watched a video and saw that powder was the thing to use so that's what I've been doing.

I just wonder about the dirt, dust, sand that gets in the rim/tire. I would think it would stick to the tube then take away the greasy slimy properties.
I suppose if it works for you then do it. Probably along the same lines as what kind of chain lube to use vs never using any lube.

At any rate you've reminded me I should order 2 new heavy duty tubes for my RMZ when I go to change the tires soon as I've never changed the tubes on it before. Thanks!

[Jengel451]

A couple of us tried it once. didn't work.

If you want to guarantee to never have a pinch flat, i'm going to tell you a secret. (ok, it's not really, it's just a PITA).

First, only use Bridgestone UHD tubes, nobody elses, Not Moose, etc, just Birdgestone.

Buy two of them. and Talc powder, only use real talc, the others have Corn cob in it and actually is abrasive after a while.

Take one tube and slice it all the way around the rim side of the tube. put talk in the tire, then boot the tire with that sliced tube, more talc now goes in, then put in the good tube.

Now, have fun spooning that all on.

You can now run about 4-5 PSI all day long. The talc makes it so you can run at speed without burning up the tubes.

Downside, HEAVY has hell!!!

[kendall_smith]

http://nuetech.com/#sthash.dRKTf5eU.dpbs

Before I'd go to the trouble of greasing tubes, double-tubing, etc. I'd recommend you at least try the Nuetech Tubliss system. They're around $100 per wheel, so you could even try just a front if the pinch flat is your biggest worry. If you end up not liking them they can be removed and sold for most of what you have in them cost-wise.

I've run these on a past bike and they work great for alleviating most tire issues that plague off-roaders. Since the bead of the tire is held on by a smaller bladder, you can run the pressure in the carcass down to 0 psi if you want, although I'm not sure why you would. I've heard of guys pinching the inner 110 psi bladder, but they were A riders that were still racing full speed with a flat with just the inner bladder holding the tire bead on. If you end up pinching the inner bladder on this system, chances are that you will be shopping for a new rim as well since any hit that would pinch flat the bladder is going to be big enough to do damage to the wheel itself.

I'll be installing these front and rear on my 300 as soon as it is due for tires.

[troy]

Kendall (and others), feel free to speak to the hassle of tire changes with the Tubliss system.

[kendall_smith]

Kendall (and others), feel free to speak to the hassle of tire changes with the Tubliss system.

Once you get their technique down, it's pretty easy. The funny thing is that I sold the bike that I ran Tubliss on with the system installed, but I kept the tool that they give you to wedge the whole rim into the tire and I actually use that method to mount even regular tubes now. You basically put the whole wheel into the middle of the tire (which is required with the Tubliss bladder mounted) and then spoon one bead on one side, then flip the wheel/tire over and spoon the other bead on.

When I'm using the Tubliss tool with tubes I put the wheel in the middle of the tire, spoon the first bead on, flip the wheel/tire over, put the tube in, spoon the second bead on, then air up the tube to set the bead.

[Jengel451]

I've always been leery of tubless off road. I've slashed sidewalls before. even a small slide puts you back to throwing your spare tube in there on the trail.

Short answer, there is no silver bullet, just what compromises you're willing to accept.

[troy]

This is all too much hassle. I'm selling the bikes.

[Jengel451]

Just give them away. I'll be right over.

[troy]

Motorcycles are dangerous. It would be irresponsible of me to give them away. I'll have to burn them.

[kendall_smith]

This is all too much hassle. I'm selling the bikes.

Sounds like you need to run Bib Mousses (sp?), although they are not without their own down sides. They are expensive, a pain to mount, they wear out after 2-3 tires worth of use, etc. etc. There is a company that makes a mounting machine that gives the user a lot of leverage and makes the process pretty easy, but I can only see that being worth if if you are racing and going through several sets of tires a year.

All in all, it seems to me that the best options when everything is considered is UHD tubes (un-lubed to reduce hassle ) or the Tubliss system. The sidewall slash is something to think about, but it's a good idea to still carry a tube while running the Tubliss for this reason. Short of a slash, a tire running Tubliss can be repaired with plugs without ever having to break a bead on the trail. Just pop the plug in, air the tire up and get going again.

[ajayhawkfan]

Spoke to Bill Conger (Dakar motorcycle racer, certified BMW instructor, scramble racer, rally racer) his comment was grease makes no difference.